By Debra Chong
KUALA LUMPUR: Contrary to public opinion, Datuk Seri Nazri Aziz (picture) thinks the court is the only way to bring an end to the “Allah” debate.
While his Cabinet colleagues, including fellow Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Datuk Jamil Khir Baharom, have been pushing to bring religious leaders to the table to settle the simmering stew, Nazri says it is too late for a dialogue.
“It’s too late. I’ve mentioned it many times,” the minister in charge of law and parliamentary affairs said when asked his opinion on the best way to resolve dilemma, which appears to be pitting the Malaysian Muslim community against the non-Muslims.
“It was the failure of the rundingan that resulted in the matter being brought to court,” he pointed out.
“It’s not the fault of the government. Let it be known that it was Tan Sri Pakiam, not the government, who brought the matter to court,” Nazri stressed.
The Archbishop of Kuala Lumpur, Reverend Tan Sri Murphy Pakiam representing the Roman Catholic Church had taken the federal government to court after the home minister banned the church newspaper from publishing the word “Allah” three years ago.
The High Court, had on December 31 last year, ruled that Herald had the constitutional right to publish the word in the Christian publication,to cater to its Bahasa Malaysia-speaking followers.
If there was to be any out-of-court settlement over the “Allah” row, Pakiam, as the official publisher of Herald — the Catholic Weekly, must make the first move, the government minister added.
“I got no choice as the minister in charge of law. Because of Tan Sri Pakiam, I must be the person to advise the government that we must use the courts-lah,” Nazri, who is also Padang Renggas MP said.
He said if he did not take that stand, the public would also lose their confidence in the country’s judiciary system.
“If I don’t do that, people may say, ‘Apa ini, menteri undang-undang tak konfiden dengan mahkamah ke? (What is this, the law minister is not confident with the court?)” Nazri added, half-jokingly.
“We must respect the system. So I’m using the court system to appeal the court decision,” he said.
Nazri did not reply when asked if he had read for himself the written grounds of judgment by High Court judge Datuk Lau Bee Lan which was released last week.
Instead, he noted that the judge is not a Muslim, and had ruled over a matter that concerned the “akidah” (faith) of the Muslim community.
“You must study the psyche of the Malays. The Chinese can be Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, no problem, but the Malays, the race itself is defined in the Constitution,” he said.
“Who is a Malay? In the Constitution, a Malay is one: a Muslim; two: speaks Malay and three: practises Malay culture. In the Constitution, there can’t be a Malay who is not a Muslim. Anything at all, any suspicion will confuse the ordinary Malays. They become so protective because Malay and Islam cannot be separate,” Nazri pointed out.
The Umno man said in the Borneo states the people had embraced the “1 Malaysia” concept a long time ago, unlike in the west where racial lines are still very apparent.
“I’m very liberal, I’m very confident, but if I try to explain to them... no way,” Nazri disclosed, referring to his contituents when asked how real the worry was that Christians would try and convert Muslims if the High Court ruling was upheld.
“For us,” he said, signalling to the reporters surrounding him at a post-launch press conference for consumer awareness on public transportation at the inter-city bus hub, a five-minute walk from Masjid Jamek, “it’s only a word. But for a Malay, it’s not. It’s their psyche.”
“Those people not in politics, they can say anything. But people like me, I depend on my voters,” the federal lawmaker said.
“I may look liberal but my constituents are not,” he added.
“Actually, in my opinion, I prefer to let it be,” Nazri continued.
“If everyone prays to Allah, they’ll all be Muslim. It’s a good ploy for Muslims to convert non-Muslims,” he quipped.
Courtesy: TheMalaysianInsider
Published By nong
MS, awak nik masih tak paham kah??? Awak tak tahu apa yang awak merepak-kan. Awak nak umat Kristiani memahami ALLAH dan segala atribut-Nya dari perspektif ISLAM dan Al-Qur'an, yg mana tak mungkin. Yg penting awak setialah pd agamamu, aku setia pd agamku...jangan membanding-bandingkan, dan mencoba menentukan siapa yg lebih benar menurut Kitab Suci masing-masing.Faham tak, you "Confused Muslim", hoi..???
Published By Mohammad Saidin
Saya sama-sekali bukan nabi OK. Apa yang saya nyatakan adalah untuk membuktikan bahawa ayat-ayat dari kitab-kitab Perjanjian Lama dan Baru mengenai Ketuhanan adalah bercanggah di antara satu sama lain dalam Gospel sendiri, sebab itu lah kamu sendiri keliru sampai kini mengenai Ketuhanan, sebab kamu tidak tahu-menahu sifat-sifat Tuhan yang satu. Fahaman ketuhanan dalam Trinity boleh difahami sebagai keliru, tetapi soal Ketuhanan dalam Suratul Al-Ikhlas adalah jelas dan terang dalam memahami Tuhan itu satu tanpa bergabung dengan sebarang pasangan manakala Tuhan in Trinity ada tiga pasangan-pasangan bergabung sebagai satu. The Trinity is fahaman dosa syirik yang mustahil diampuni Allah. Kamu boleh pelajari dan fahami ilmu 'Tauhid' dengan lebih mudah lagi. Cubalah kalau tak percaya.
Published By nong
Mohammad S.,
Awak ni tau tak, seperti "orang asing" yang putar-putar sambil sibuk mengintip dikeliling pagar rumah umat Kristiani. Awak nih, dengan berada di luar dan mencoba memahami konsep "TRINITAS" kita, bagaimana boleh paham-paham, barangkali sampai 'goal' pun tetap tak paham, sebab apa? Sebab awak "orang asing",motif dan minatnya bukan coba memahami ttp saja mengkritisi paham agama orang lain.
Kalau mau paham, masuklah menjadi umat Kristian, nah dgn cara itu, awak yg dulu "orang asing" lagi, akan menjadi saudara baru kami, dan bila awak sudah diterangi Roh ALLAH, awak akan mulai paham sungguh misteri "TRINITAS" umat Kristiani. Mau nggak masuk Kristian??? Kalau tetap tak sudi, HENTIKAN seluruh argumentasi sia-sia serta upayamu, yg hanya membuatmu semakin menjadi "CONFUSED MUSLIM" in Malaysia !!!!
Kita umat Kristiani lebih dulu mengenal ALLAH, dan Kristus Yesus dalam Injil atau Wahyu-Nya,jauh0jauh telah memperingatkan bhw, "Sesudah Aku, akan bermunculan nabi-nabi PALSU"....jangan-jangan awak sebagai "Orang asing" tadi, salah satu darinya.
Itu sudah, semoga TUHAN ALLAH tetap memberkati awak dan mengampuni kelemahan awak sebab sebenarnya awak TAK TAHU APA YANG AWAK KATAKAN !!!!!!
Published By No Allah in Trinity
1 John 5:7 "(God) the Father, (God) the Word (Jesus the Son of God also!?), and (God) the Holy Ghost (Spirit); and these three are one," has been expunged in the RSV of 1952 and 1971 and in many other Bibles as a gloss that had encroached in the Greek text. Check it out!
Published By Mohammad Saidin
Dear The Catholic Observer:
You have made statements that contradict the Gospel's verses that I have quoted previously, showing that the Gospel's contradictory statements are NOT only confusing but also unreliable as a witness' contradictory testimonies or discrepancies to be thrown out of court! More Gospel's contradictory examples are as follows: Jesus' divinity as the Christ since infancy and woshipped by Magi were widely publicized in Matthew chapter 2 in clear contradiction of John 5:37 "Ye have neither heard his (God's) voice at any time, nor seen his shape." Moreover, John 10:30 "I and my Father are one," clearly contradicts John 17:21 "That they (the disciples) all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they may also be one in us ..." in failing to prove divinity for them collectively, since the disciples are still NOT divine like Jesus and the Father. In addition, Matthew 16:16 "Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God," clearly contradicts Luke 4:41 because when the devils cried out saying to Jesus, " Thou art Christ the Son of God," Jesus rebuked and ordered them to remain silent. Again in Luke 9:20-21, Jesus "straightly charged them (the disciples), and commanded them to tell no man that thing (the Christ of God)." So, contradictory Gospel's verses like a witness' contradictory testimonies (discrepancies) prove confusion and unreliability to be thrown out of court, right? Come on! Who do you think you are kidding? You must admit of seeing pictures and statues of Mary with her baby Jesus in Catholic churches anywhere, even in New York here. The Trinitarians ironically accept the Trinity to represent one God which they explain as if they are confused themselves like gibberish. Even you are unable to explain the Trinity without being NOT only confusing but also gibberish. That is, the Trinitarians do NOT correctly understand the qualities and attributes of one God. So, be frank and admit that the Trinity represents 3 Gods as 3 Persons getting together as one group NOT as one God or one Person. See! Honesty is the best policy here, especially in stating what Trinity really is like. What is Trinity if you are NOT confused to understand it correctly? Indeed, You must NOT hide the facts about Trinity as referring to 3 persons as proven in the confusing and gibberish quotations to defining the triune God in Trinity is one God instead of 3 Gods as follows:- "Bible Dictionary Trinity a word not found in sc ripture, but used to express the doctrine of the unity of God as subsisting in three distinct Persons. This word is derived from the Gr. trias, first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168-183), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut. 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa. 44:6; Mark 12:29, 32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person. Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary Cite This Source" - The 'Word of Allah'; that is 'Be' is definitely NOT exclusive to Jesus only, because anything that exists is created by Allah as in Surah 3:47 "When He has decreed something, He says to it only 'Be' and 'it is'." Jesus as 'Ruhullah' means as 'Spirit created by Allah and belonging to Allah as well' NOT as Spirit part of Allah. In fact, we are also spirits created by Allah and belonging to Him as well. Therefore, nothing in the Quran which is also known as the Word of Allah implies that Jesus is divine or the Son of God. Besides, there is no plurality in unity for Trinity that the Quran allows. In fact, the Quran disallows Allah in Trinity for you to find and quote it here if you are really good at reading the Quran UNLIKE in the Bible, like the Trinity as defined and quoted from the Bible Dictionary here previously. See! It is now clear that the Trinity represents 3 distinct (different) persons as 3 Gods and NOT one person as one God. Use your basic mathematical skill in calculating 1+1+1=3 NOT 1. On the other hand, 1x1x1=1 cannot be used for the Trinity, because clearly the 3 persons are NOT like 3 identical triplets having the same, exact fingerprints. So, the key point here is for you Trinitarians to keep up with your constitutional rights for freedom of worship without invoking 'Allah', since you already know for a fact that your church prayers and worship services are still valid and acceptable without using the kalimah 'Allah' at all, just like using the terms 'God' and 'Lord' in New York here for church prayers and worship services are still valid and acceptable without invoking 'Allah' at all, meaning that you as non-Arabic speaking Trinitarians can more conveniently use 'Tuhan Bapa' and 'Dewata Yesus Kristus' or preferably 'Elohim Bapa' and 'Theos Yesus Kristus' as out of respect for your Old Testament and New Testament which were first discovered by sc riptural scholars and archeological researchers to have been written in Hebrew and Greek, respectively. You Malaysian Trinitarians are NOT like the Arab pagans and Arab Christians whose Arabic word for 'Tuhan' or 'God' is 'Allah'. Furthermore, Trinitarians are UNLIKE Muslims of whatever languages they speak must still invoke 'Allah' for prayers to be valid and acceptable. So, tiada perlu nak mengada-gada lagi hingga ke court. Sportinglah sikit dan janganlah sampai mengada-gada hendak gunakan kalimah 'Allah' yang you tidak perlukan sama-sekali in Trinity.
Published By TheCatholic Observer
Hello Mohammad saidin, I think you are becoming a pain in the neck. Your understanding about Christianity is very shallow and misleading. We are not Trinitarians..okay. Please get it right..we are Christians. Dont make others to call you a Mohammadism. Of course you will feel ofended. As you want people to addressed you as a Muslim, so please do likewise to address us as Christians. We are followers of Christ Jesus, the Saviour of the world and who worship the One True Lord God (Tuhan Allah)Almighty. Please get this into your mind. Like I have stated before in other posting where you seem to uttered nonesense about the lack of your understanding of the concept of the Holy Trinity in One God, please step aside and learn or remain at peace. You do not have the Holy Spirit in you to understand the mystery and truth of the God who is the Creator of the universal and all things. The word Allah was used by the Arab Christians before Islam even came into the world. The word is not the sole properitor of Islam nor copyright word by Islam. Don't try to control God (Allah), for God do not need you to protect Him..as He is the Almighty! Stop trying to hijack Allah (God). This is the name in Bahasa Malaysia to address the Almighty as God. So either you accept history or please go read your Quran again and see that the principles of Islam do not forbide the People of the book ie. Jews and Christians from using the word Allah.
Published By Mohammad Saidin
Dear Christian Fellowship: I have checked out your suggested website, and I now become more convinced that you Trinitarians have a sound, legal reason to use the term 'Elohim' instead of the kalimah 'Allah' for your triune God in Trinity. I therefore thank you for bringing up this additional proof to justify in your dropping 'Allah' from the Trinity in order to prefer 'Elohim' in the Trinity, especially in Malaysia. Subsequently, you Trinitarians have corrected yourselves by choosing to cease any further animosity with your Muslim neighbors in compliance with the second of the utmost of importance in the ten commandments. See! There is no need for you Trinitarians to go to court anymore, for you still have your constitutional rights for freedom of worship by using the tern 'Elohim' without using the kalimah 'Allah' in the Trinity for your triune God. So, no more mengada-gada lagi to insist on invoking 'Allah', since you Trinitarians now have additional proof to using 'Elohim' in the Trinity for your triune God, right?
Published By Christian Fellowship
My respon to Mohammad Saidin,i would prefer you to go visit this website http://www.arabicbible.com/islam/trinit.htm,as it seems you not really understand what is the meaning of Trinity in Christian Faith, share with your fellow Muslims.
Published By Mohammad Saidin
If the Trinitarians pray to Allah, then they confuse to insult or offend Muslims by associating others with Allah as their triune God in the Trinity. The Trinitarians may define Tuhan, Dewata, Elohim, or Theos to remain in Trinity or as their triune God. But, Allah is NOT like that, for Allah neither begets nor is begotten. So, why let the Trinitarians to define Allah as their triune God in Trinity? Takutlah dari mempersetujui supaya dosa syirik boleh disokong atau diberi sokongan. Jikalau saya salah dan tersilap, silalah perbetulkan saya yang disangka daif ilmu ini.
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