‘I like to think of hell as empty’ Pope Francis

Jan 27, 2024

VATICAN: Pope Francis appeared on Italy’s most popular prime-time talk show on January 14 where the pontiff shared how he hopes that hell is “empty.”

Three million people in Italy tuned in to watch the nearly hourlong television interview.

The 87-year-old Pope began his appearance on the television show Che Tempo Che Fa by joking that he is “still alive” and has no plans to resign.

“For as long as I feel I still have the capacity to serve, I will go on. When I can no longer do it, it will be time to think about it,” Francis said.

When asked by the interviewer, Fabio Fazio, how he “imagines hell,” Pope Francis gave a short response.

“What I am going to say is not a dogma of faith but my own personal view: I like to think of hell as empty; I hope it is,” Pope Francis said.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that Catholic teaching “affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death, the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, ‘eternal fire.’ The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.”

The Catechism also says: “In hope, the Church prays for ‘all men to be saved.’”

Theologians like Hans Urs von Balthasar in his book Dare We Hope That All Men Be Saved?, have put forward the possibility that one could “hope” that hell might be empty because of what Jesus accomplished on the cross, making the distinction between universal salvation as a hope and universal salvation as a doctrine, which he rejects.

American Catholic evangelist Ralph Martin wrote in his 2012 book Will Many Be Saved? What Vatican II Actually Teaches and Its Implications for the New Evangelisation that “what motivated the Apostles and the whole history of Christian missions was knowing from divine revelation that the human race is lost, eternally lost, without Christ, and even though it is possible for people to be saved under certain stringent conditions without explicit faith and baptism, ‘very often,’ this is not actually the case.”

Pope Francis has previously spoken about the existence of hell in public speeches during the past 10 years of his pontificate. In March 2014, he said in an address that members of the Mafia should change their lives “while there is still time, so that you do not end up in hell. That is what awaits you if you continue on this path.”

Fabio then asked the Pope if he ever feels alone, especially when there is negative reaction to his decisions, for example, his approval of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith’s declaration that a priest can offer informal blessings to gay couples as long as it is clear the Church is not equating their union to marriage.

“Yes, as you say, when you make a decision, there is a price of loneliness that you have to pay, and sometimes decisions are not accepted, but most of the time, when decisions are not accepted, it is because they are not understood,” the Pope responded.

Sometimes, rather than trying to understand and to have a direct, “fraternal discussion” about a decision, he said, people just hang on to their doubts and become “a resistance and make ugly conclusions.”

“This has happened with the recent decision about blessing everyone,” Pope Francis said.

But, he insisted, “the Lord blesses everyone, everyone. The Lord blesses everyone who is capable of being baptised, that is, every person. But then people must enter into conversation with the Lord’s blessing and see what path the Lord is proposing for them.”

The pastoral work of the Church, he said, is to “take them by the hand and help them to go down that road, not condemn them from the start.”

“I always tell confessors: Forgive everything and treat people as kindly as the Lord treats us. And then if you want to help people, you can talk and help them move on, but forgive everyone,” he said.

Pope Francis repeated his conviction that God never tires of forgiving people, but people tire of asking for God’s forgiveness.

“The Lord waits for us, He knocks at the door of many hardened hearts so that they will have the ability to recognise the wrong they are doing,” he said.

Fazio asked the Pope about the phrase in the classic Act of Contrition: “I detest all my sins because of thy just punishments.”

“Sin deserves punishment,” the Pope said. But, he said, he believes the “literary expression” in the classic version of the prayer “is too harsh, given God’s love. I prefer to say, ‘Because by sinning I have saddened your heart.’”

“In my 54 years of priesthood ? I’ve been a priest 54 years; I’m old,” he said. “This is a confession. In these 54 years, I’ve only denied forgiveness once because of the person’s hypocrisy. Just once. I’ve always forgiven everything, even when I knew the person could fall again, but the Lord forgives us. He helps us not to fall or to fall less, but He always forgives.”

Pope Francis spoke with the TV programme, which is recorded in Milan, northern Italy, remotely from the Vatican. In the interview, Pope Francis was also asked why he ends every speech and public audience asking for people to pray for him.

“Because I am a sinner and I need God’s help to remain faithful to the vocation He has given me,” the Pope replied.

“As a bishop I have a very great responsibility to the Church. I recognise my weaknesses — that’s why I have to ask for prayers, for everyone to pray for me to remain faithful in the service of the Lord, that I do not end up in the attitude of a mediocre shepherd who does not take care of his flock,” he added. -- Agencies